Ryan Foland speaks with Neil Sahota, an IBM Master Inventor, United Nations (UN) Artificial Intelligence (AI) Advisor, author of the best-seller Own the AI Revolution, and sought-after speaker.
In this episode of our podcast series, Ryan and Neil talk about how artificial intelligence can assist in discovering improved methods for enhancing your interpersonal connections and refining your abilities in public speaking.
Tune in for an interview full of ideas and tips on harnessing the power of AI to modernize, adapt, and foster creativity as we set forth on our path into the digital era.
Listen to the interview on iTunes or Soundcloud.
Welcome to the World of Speakers podcast, brought to you by SpeakerHub. In each episode, we interview a professional speaker and reveal their very best tips and tricks. You'll learn to improve your presentation skills, keep your audience engaged, and learn how to grow your business to get more gigs and make more money. Here's your host, Ryan Foland.
Ryan Foland: Ahoy, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the World of Speakers, where we search the world for speakers who you need to not only meet, but learn from. Now, here in front of me today, I can verify as a real person, it is not his avatar, it is not his AI-generated human digital form, but don't be fooled if you do interact with him and it's not really him, it’s some sort of artificial intelligence, because he literally wrote the book on it. In fact, he not only wrote one book, but he's writing another book, and he's here today to help you get your chip together when it comes to AI.
Neil Sahota, welcome to the show again, Sir. How are you?
Neil Sahota: Hey, I’m doing all right, Ryan, and thanks for the shout out of being flesh and blood, because too many people think I'm a robot.
Ryan Foland: Well, I mean, these days, how do you actually tell, right? I'm actually working on my ginger avatar so that I can show up in multiple places. Before this AI craze, I was looking at becoming a hologram as well, but it is nice to have that IRL, and when we interviewed in 2001, we were virtual, and so now we're here live in person.
I can reach out and give you a high five. So how does it feel to be a real person?
Neil Sahota: You know, it's kind of hard for me to tell because I've been one my entire life.
Ryan Foland: You know, I'm reading a book right now called Being Wrong, and it's a whole study of wrongology and in one element, there's many research that there's lots of research that they pull from, but this one gentleman wrote a paper, What It's Like to Be a Bat, and his whole concept was, if you're trying to understand what a bat feels and how a bat thinks, you can't as a human because you're not a bat. And so a bat has different sonar and radar and they hang upside down sleeping, all these things. So we as humans try to like connect and think how would it be to be a bat, but you can't be a bat if you're a human. So as a human, you can only relate to other humans. And here we are as humans relating to humans.
Neil Sahota: That's true. Right. But that's an interesting point, because I think as human beings, we think we can understand what a bat's like, but we look at everything through a human lens. That's the challenge.
I'm pretty sure bats aren't worried about virtual avatars.
Ryan Foland: But bats are mammals. And so there is this thought that maybe there is some sort of consciousness, maybe there is some sort of commonality there. Could we ask ChatGPT or could we ask Claude to help us understand what a bat is? Do you think they could help us bridge that gap?
Neil Sahota: I think that if you were to ask like ChatGPT or Claude or something, they could probably tell you things about a bat. But I think the whole consciousness discussion is a little beyond their pay grade.
Ryan Foland: OK, well, here we are starting off talking about bats and our ability to relate through AI. It's going to a great start. But let's actually get this thing started. Let me start off with a question I ask everybody, and it is, tell us a story that shaped you. It's best if it's like one moment in time rather than a whole series of events. And getting to know people is really accelerated by the stories of your past. So tell us about your bat experience, maybe.
Neil Sahota: You know, I remember the first time I actually had to teach a class at the university as like a professor. I was trying to think, like if I was teaching a class of bats, how would that work? But I reoriented back to people. But I actually thought back to what it was like to be a student and all the things that that were good and bad. And then it would have dawned on me in that I actually did not like a lot of my college professors. They were very smart people.
Ryan Foland: Where did you go to college?
Neil Sahota: I went to UC Irvine.
Ryan Foland: Nice, nice, nice. Now, the faculty here today are not the faculty of the past.
Neil Sahota: No, no, no. I'm quite old, everybody. So those guys are long gone. But, you know, and I understand better today that most people are here to do research and things like that. They're smart people. They'll get me wrong. But they're thinking about, OK, I'm going to teach you mathematical finance or I'm going to teach you about politics in Korea.
Ryan Foland: And what did you study? Polysci and math?
Neil Sahota: Polysci and math and computer science.
Ryan Foland: OK, OK, good, good. Wait, three?
Neil Sahota: Three, three undergrad degrees.
Ryan Foland: I only got two. That's crazy.
Neil Sahota: You can catch up, man.
Ryan Foland: OK, I'm more OK. I got an MBA and I'm working on maybe I'll get a master's in sailing or a PhD in pirate.
Neil Sahota: Dude, I love that one. Let's do the PhD in piracy together.
RF Okay, we start our own curriculum. All right, back to your story.
Neil Sahota: So what I realized was I'm trying to teach knowledge to these students, right? I'm teaching an MBA class. They're taking the selective to get a job.
So what's going to be most helpful? It's not that, OK, this subject here are the 12 key things you really need to know about it. I'm thinking about, OK, in my 10 weeks, what can I teach them in 10 weeks that's going to actually help them get that job? And it might be only five or six things. And that's really how I oriented. That's really started getting me thinking that especially as a speaker, I'm not on stage to talk about myself or how awesome I am. We all know that.
Ryan Foland: I mean, that's I pay you for that.
Neil Sahota: But it's to impart information or help people figure something out, right? And then I take a next step. It's the same thing with teaching a class. And so that experience of trying to put together lecture materials, the curriculum for the course really got me thinking about it's the audience. That's where I really took away. And that's something I've actually migrated speaking, consulting work, the whole nine yards. It all boils down to what's the value you're creating for your target audience.
Ryan Foland: Well, you said two different words. I don't want to know the difference in your mind. One, you said you're going to impart knowledge. And then almost in the same context, you talked about how you were going to share or teach them information. Is there a difference between those? Do you use those as synonyms? But I'm curious why those two word choices.
Neil Sahota: Great, great question. I actually consider them different. So information is essentially sharing, you know, lack of a better word like data, like standardized things, like they could go off, read a book or whatever. You know, this is the general kind of information. I look at knowledge as the conceptual understanding and application of information.
So the ability to do something with it, not just know it.
Ryan Foland: So like hair gel versus using hair gel.
Neil Sahota: Right.
Ryan Foland: Okay. Okay, good, good. Now, what got you first into the world of AI? Because that's what essentially whether you like it or not is what you're known for. And that's what people can follow the brand crumbs and they Google and search and well, that and all the little cute inspirational stories on Instagram and all you know. I don't know where you get them all. I'm like treasure trove of them. But AI and cute little inspirational stories.
Neil Sahota: It's just experience, right?
It's looking at things and seeing opportunities rather than threats. So like the AI, for example, that started like 20 years ago where we have some new technology tools. We're doing a lot of things with like data and data analytics. And I got big name guys I'm working with like Michael Eisner, Warren Buffett going, Neil, it's amazing what computers are telling us. It's just like, they're not actually telling us anything, but could they? Right.
Ryan Foland: Okay. So I'm jumping in here because you added another word to this sort of bank.
You have information, which is the standardized, what would you call it? The data at the end of the day or like, you know, you said a book or some information, but the information is maybe what's already available. Then you talk about the knowledge, which is the application of that. But then you threw in this whole experience word. So how does that combine with that triage of words?
Neil Sahota: Another great question, right? As we do things, it doesn't always seem to work out quite like we planned.
Ryan Foland: Right. Like you get the information and then you go to acquire the knowledge and you apply it, but then maybe it doesn't actually work.
Neil Sahota: Yeah, it doesn't. It may not work perfectly or doesn't work at all, but that's kind of the experience. So you realize that you can't really just follow a set of steps, right? You have to take some other things from the environment, things in context to try and figure something out, but you learn from that experience. So when it comes to us developing understanding, it's information, knowledge, experience. That's the formulation.
Ryan Foland: And if you're forming a syllabus for a class, you're really helping them to understand, starting with information that they can acquire the knowledge, but only get it if they actually go through it and experience it.
Neil Sahota: Correct. Which is why I always have them do hands-on projects. I'm very big about experiential learning. Because it's not just a great way to test their knowledge. They can see that while everything makes sense in the classroom, when I actually try and do it, there's a little twist over here or here's a little bit of a random case that popped up.
Ryan Foland: And I guess a lot of speakers could be terrible professors and a lot of professors could be terrible speakers, but a lot of teachers could be amazing speakers and a lot of faculty could be amazing speakers as well. You're talking about the target audience and when you have a class who signed up for your class, that’s as targeted of an audience as you get. But you're also dealing with students that kind of have to be there. I guess some audiences have to be there.
But if you're developing a 10-week curriculum versus an hour and a half keynote or an hour keynote, do you think that the approach is fundamentally the same?
Neil Sahota: I think there's a lot of overlap, right? The 10-week curriculum, you’re doing a series of mini-keynotes. That's essentially what it boils down to. So it's not that you're just doing one talk and some QA and you're done. It's like you're building a whole series of talks that have one unifying kind of theme to it. Right.
Ryan Foland: And do you think you could travel back in time to when you're creating your syllabus for the 10-week class or the first class that you're teaching with the audience in mind?
Do you think if somebody said at the very last minute, hey, not 10-week class, you just have an hour to present this or an hour and a half to give this as one keynote, would you be able to translate that or would so much of it be lost because it's broken up in a little many chunks with hands on things?
Neil Sahota: I'm not sure it's a fair comparison that way.
Ryan Foland: Okay.
Neil Sahota: I think you can, and I've done this, I should say what I've done in the past is if I had to do something like that, summarize 10 weeks into an hour, it becomes more wine tasting, right? You get little sips. So it's like whatever the topic is, like leadership class. So you talk a little bit about the difference between leadership and management and the people management aspect, some of those things, but you're talking at a very high level. You're kind of just planning that nugget. So at least people know, okay, I got to go out and then study this some more, research some more, or find another talk on that subject because that's all you can really do within an hour.
Ryan Foland: Do you think you identify more as a lecturer or a speaker? I just had to throw, I mean, I had to make them more similar.
Neil Sahota: I would like to think I'm a lecturer because I'm trying to impart some information and help them get some knowledge, but I think my approach to it is more speaker because I'm trying to do it in a way that connects and resonates with them.
Ryan Foland: Well, I'm essentially trying to get you to package not only 10 weeks, but like 10 or 20 years of your experience, knowledge, and information into less than an hour show. And so we're doing this through storytelling, through rapid fire questions, through a little bit of wine tasting. But let's crack a bottle and let's have a few cups of this wine from a lecturer's perspective, who is a speaker that's sort of combining these two into a mix, a blend per se here. And I want to know how you can help share your tactics around speaking because in the second part of the show here, we're really talking about your tips on being a professional public speaker.
But there's these really cool threads about being a lecturer and a keynoter and a speaker. So if you were to boil down to help those who are listening, how do you channel your inner professor-er and how do you sprinkle this into little sips into a keynote? What are some of the fundamental things? Because I really like this analogy that a classroom is an ideal target audience.
They're there to learn. They want to know. You do have a lot longer of a time with them, but there's a chance for hands-on activities. There's a chance for many keynotes, all these things. So if you were to start, what would the first glass of wine be that you'd pour here for us?
Neil Sahota: It's really to understand who the audience is. The surprising thing, Ryan, a lot of times I get asked to speak. A lot of them just think I have some like pre-canned presentation. And I tell them I actually never do that. I ask tons of questions about who the audience is or who the students are.
What's their major, their background, their year? If they're PhD students, I know they're going to go off and want to do research. If they're MBAs, I know they're looking to try and get a job. So I want to focus on outcomes for them.
Ryan Foland: Now, believe it or not, that's the probably 101st time that I've heard that as a top tip. So if we were to take that glass of wine and sort of decant it down and spin it through a little sprout and put some oxygen in it, how do we get more granular than that? Are there top questions that you ask? Are there ways that you go about it? I mean, you said you ask a ton of questions. So I'm assuming you have your pre-call. But boiling down within that, either what is the most information, the most valuable information or what you can't go without? How do we get more particular on that?
Neil Sahota: I mean, I ask actually about the demographics of the audience. So if it's speaking, age range, types of jobs, industries, if it's students, it's a little easier because it's more landlocked demographically.
But to give you an example, I was asked to give a talk to a group of high school students. They were in a special math program, underserved community. And so I was asking tons of questions like, okay, what's their goals? I was like, well, your goal is an organization as well. So this nonprofit, they're like, well, most of these kids, they don't have anybody in their family that's ever gone to college, for example. So they don't know what it's like. They don't think about that. One of the things we'd love for them is to get encouraged and excited about actually going to universities. That's very helpful for me.
Ryan Foland: Right. So you're getting them excited to go to college. And that's now my question to you is, did they actually tell you that or did you infer that from the information? And what if you ask them these questions and the organizer, which I've experienced before, they're like, well, I don't know. Or I've got these RSVPs, but what if they don't have a full grasp on that? Did you take the information and do your own Claude and then come up with what you think it is?
Neil Sahota: Well, in this case, they knew. But I've experienced that they're not sure quite what they want to get at. But I try to actually, as you say, Claude it.
Ryan Foland: Now, hold on. People are listening. They're like, who is Claude? Now, I recently learned about Claude and I've been using Claude and ChatGPT in conjunction with each other to see. And I really do like Claude. But tell people about Claude real quick.
Neil Sahota: Claude is a generative AI system akin to kind of ChatGPT and like Mid Journey and some different language. We call them large language models. So it can do some things that ChatGPT can't do or does it better in some cases than ChatGPT.
I don't know if I want to do that because I'm sure my buddy, Sam Altman, is going to want to listen to this going like, Neil, what are you doing to me in OpenAI?
Ryan Foland: Okay, okay, Sam. Sam, we're not buddies yet, but we will stop doing that. You know what? It's still an arms race at this point.
Neil Sahota: It is. And don't get me wrong. There's some things that ChatGPT is very good at. Got that, Sam?
Ryan Foland: Okay, thus we digress. Let's go back to you being a large language model as a human talking with event organizers to gather the disparate data. I don't know if I disparate. Is that right?
Neil Sahota: Yeah, disparate. Yeah.
Ryan Foland: Not desperate, but disparate.
Neil Sahota: They're also desperate sometimes too. So you're right there, Ryan.
Ryan Foland: Okay. So you take all these questions and then you get trained as a human model on that and then you either come up with an assumption or you take what they know. But for those that don't really know, are you really just making those leaps based on the information that you get?
Neil Sahota: I try to do some research around it. That's all I can do. I mean, not every talk I give is a home run, unfortunately, for that reason.
Ryan Foland: The other thing I want to point out is you've traveled everywhere except for Antarctica or something, right?
Neil Sahota: That's true, yeah.
Ryan Foland: So you've spoken literally around the world and I think that what makes this piece of advice maybe more interesting for your perspective is that a lot of speakers are not global or they're local or they do a lot of stuff, but truly you are across the globe in so many different countries. And now it's dawned on me that knowing your audience is probably super important for that reason. And is it truly just every time you talk is something different specifically for your audience?
Neil Sahota: It is. And I even tailor some of the examples. I mean, one of the things I learned from teaching, especially that first class, I love sports, so I threw in a few sports analogies. I thought they were high level enough that most people would be familiar. Yeah, no, total bombs.
Ryan Foland: What were you talking about? Patong or something?
Neil Sahota: No, I use an example of baseball, right? You want to try and hit singles rather than just try to swing to the fence as a home run every time. And most of the students are like, ah, what?
Ryan Foland: Singles and doubles do win the game, right?
Neil Sahota: They do. But the problem, you know, and this is what I've learned is not all people or not all generations are familiar.
Ryan Foland: Since we know that getting information from the event organizers is your tip number one, and we dove in a little bit deeper knowing that if they don't have the answers, you do the research. If they do have the answers, that dictates your talk. But if we were to go back to your baseball analogy here, what if you were to crack a single that maybe hits the ball and smashes into the wine glass? What's your number two tip for people out there?
Neil Sahota: My number two tip is I always come up with takeaways for what I'm presenting. So I want to be able to say that when I've done this, the audience or the students are going to understand this one thing or they understand these three things or they know the next action they got to take is X or it's Y.
Ryan Foland: And are you exploring finding those takeaways by using some AI based on what you're doing? Like, are you taking your outline and feeding it in and having how are you using AI or are you using it for these kinds of things?
Neil Sahota: It depends. Some of the stuff tends to be a little bit more familiar or, you know, I've been asked to do it several times for a similar type of audience, but usually the first time around or it's like an area like I don't have a whole lot of experience with, I am tapping into AI in terms of research as well as trying to understand the problems some of those audience members are probably facing.
Ryan Foland: Well, let's talk real quick here about your book. Your book is Revolution, AI Revolution.
Neil Sahota: Own the AI Revolution.
Ryan Foland: Own the AI.
Neil Sahota: Own it, man. Own it. Okay. And published by McGraw-Hill Business. And for people who are looking to get up to speed on AI, don’t be offended by this. Since it was published a couple of years ago, is it still relevant?
Neil Sahota: Actually, it is, right? The book was actually written to be timeless. It's not a discussion about here's visual recognition or here's these things. It's actually how you actually understand and apply the capabilities of this technology. It's really focused on solving business problems. Most of the interviews and studies are from domain experts. They're therapists. They're lawyers. They're marketers. And they're talking about how do you actually solve a problem rather than what the technology is.
Ryan Foland: So it's more first principles when it comes to all this stuff.
Neil Sahota: Yeah. It's funny. I actually had someone reach out to me through LinkedIn last week saying that someone gave them my book as a birthday gift. They were a little worried saying like, the book seems like a few years old. They read it and they're like, this is actually insanely helpful. He's like, I actually bought copies for all my employees and I have them study your framework. We've already figured out two different projects based off of that.
Ryan Foland: Awesome. And I think the value in first principles, especially the history or the backstory, is going to give people more of a foundation than trying to be up to speed on what the latest GP Claude is.
Neil Sahota: Well, it’s funny you say that. Assuming that Sam is going to buy Claude. Well, you never know, Sam. Maybe that's an endorsement. But make sure Ryan gets the finder's fee. But that's the thing because I hear a lot of people with chat-sheep BT and I always ask this question right now. What's the biggest struggle you have? Is it having the technologists do the work? Is it getting the funding?
One of the things I throw out is just figuring out what I should be doing. What's the business problem I should be focused on? Almost 8% of people always say, I don't know the business problem I should be focusing on.
Ryan Foland: Because the tools are there to help attack that. But if you don't know the business problem, and I would think that business problem, could we make the connection that the business problem is essentially what you're trying to get out of organizers for the audience members? Like, what is the business problem that you're trying to solve for the audience? Why the audience is showing up for the business problem for the MBA student, the business problem is a job for the PhD student. So is it really that this idea of understand your audience, which I've just tried to just heard so many times, could we say that understand the audience's business problem?
Neil Sahota: No, 100%. Because I get people say like, well, turn of AI is hot. Can you talk about that? Yeah. What should we talk about? Maybe you could just share some of the tools. And it's like, well, who's the audience? What's the problem they're trying to solve? Because nobody wants to fix something that's not broken.
Ryan Foland: Right. Or they just want to get up on the trends. But if you only have an hour and a half for wine tasting, and you're not going to enroll in a 10-week course to really get the hands-on, as a speaker or a lecturer, you really have the responsibility of that distillation process to get people just enough information to get excited, but not enough information for them to gain the knowledge or experience. Because that has to happen afterwards.
Neil Sahota: Yeah. And that's how it is. That's why I always feel like, especially for a business speaker, there's got to be some takeaway, some action for your audience. I've done lightning talks, these 10-minute talks. And I've heard other speakers go like, that's just stupid. You can't do anything in 10 minutes. I'm like, you can make one really great point in 10 minutes.
Ryan Foland: Yeah. It's actually just like, if I had more time, my email or letter would be shorter. If I had more time to prepare, I could make the speech shorter. And I forget what President is, so I'm not going to claim it. They said something like, if I have to give a talk that is an hour, I need a week to present or something, or a week to prepare. If you give me no time limit on how much I need to speak, I’ll do it right now. And I think we forget, or there's this, it's just not intuitive, right? It seems like you would need longer time to create a longer talk, but it's the exact opposite. And so the more you know about the business problem, the more you can have less fluff and more directly speaking, whether it's 10 minutes, 7 minutes, 18 minutes, or an hour and a half.
Neil Sahota: Well, that goes to your point about distillation, right? To refine your message takes a lot more work.
Ryan Foland: Yeah.
Neil Sahota: I, you know, we had our, the United Nations, we had our AI for Good summit. I was hosting something in the leadership's lounge. So we had some speakers come in. They would do like a 15-minute little presentation and we would do a fireside chat. So, you know, I had a guy, SVP from Microsoft, super nice guy, sent in his draft slides and we're looking at it. It's like 53 slides. It's like you have 15 minutes to present slides, lots of different things.
It's like just throwing out everything out there. And it's like, and I gave him the feedback. Hey, I appreciate all the information. I know there's a ton of stuff Microsoft's doing. You got 15 minutes, man, right? We're going to have a fireside chat. We can figure out what we want to talk about there. 15 minutes, make one or two really great points. Just set the table for the fireside chat. But you want everyone walking away thinking about, I got to go talk to the Microsoft guys at their booth afterwards, right? That's the way you want to do it. Not just here's the large laundry list of stuff that's going on. If something sticks, stop by.
Ryan Foland: If you got a little mud in your eye, come on by. Okay, I'm going to call out two words here, which is this idea of the point, because you said you have to make, let's say in 15 minutes, you make one point. And then say an hour, you make four points, something to that extent. But then you also talk about the takeaway. And so I'm curious the difference between or the connection between a point and a takeaway. In my mind, the point is what you're sharing in the moment, and the takeaway is what you have to do afterwards or think more about, or that's a knowledge or experience. Is there something around there?
Neil Sahota: Yeah, the point is the key objective information, whatever you're trying to do.
Ryan Foland: The business problem that you're addressing.
Neil Sahota: Yeah, during your talk, the takeaway is the next step afterwards. It's almost like a homework assignment, right?
Ryan Foland: It is a homework assignment.
Neil Sahota: It is. I didn't want to say that. Sorry, everybody. I intended some other type of assignment. Well, fun work, fun work assignment.
Ryan Foland: Fun work, I love it. So what makes for good fun work? I initially had takeaway here, but what are the elements? Because that's not easy. Organizers, or even if you're applying for a talk, or they'll usually say long description, short description, takeaway is what does the audience leave with. And that's not that easy to go and figure out what are some, qualifications of a really good takeaway. What does it entail?
Neil Sahota: It's going to be a real specific type of action. So give you an example. I, you know, I get a lot of people often asking about AI.
And the question is, okay, where should I get started? Like I'm looking at my business where I get started. And I always tell, the takeaway I give them is, go talk to your ground employees, ask them what the most boring or tedious thing they have to do is. That's probably your best opportunity for AI, right? But the takeaway is now, I got to go talk to those guys and understand what is that boring thing.
Ryan Foland: Versus just go play with ChatGPT. Exactly. Because then, because I've heard from people that either jump on it or try it. And they're just, they're just lost. They're not sure what to do. I use it every single day.
I think about the things that are mundane. Or every time I use something that has to do with writing, I just use it as a cross reference or almost like a spell check.
Neil Sahota: Well, you have a purpose, right?
Ryan Foland: Right.
Neil Sahota: You have a purpose when you use ChatGPT. Just going in raw, it's like, here's a tool you should learn. Like you're saying, there's no focus. You're going to get people like, write me a love story between Stalin and a bat that takes place on the moon, right? That's what people wind up doing. There's no intrinsic value to that.
Ryan Foland: Okay. So let's come up with a takeaway for this part of the talk, which is how to possibly leverage some large language model AI like ChatGPT or Claude or the next one that comes out or the next or the next. But in the theme of takeaways, I bet we could task people to say, take your speech and it could be one that is a video that you transcribe. It could be one that you have an outline for. It could be one that you've already created a long description for that you've given. Do you think it would be an appropriate, definite takeaway to say, use one of these large language tools, feed it that information, basically copy and paste it in there and then say, what do you think main takeaways for people in my audience to do afterwards? And then see what it generates. Is that enough of a specific?
Neil Sahota: Yeah. Well, you have to give it some information about your audience. This is where prompt engineering, the parameters become really important.
One of the things I actually did was I took a transcript of one of my talks into ChatGPT and I asked it, am I using buzzwords too much? And it came back and said, well, you actually used this one word like 80 times in your talk. So it's like, okay, I got to tone that down.
Ryan Foland: Okay. So that's a different application of basically taking your raw talk and then doing it. Have you heard of Yodel? Yodel? Utili?
Neil Sahota: I've heard of Yodel. I don't know Utili.
Ryan Foland: I'll have to put it in the show notes, but I actually got reached out to by this gentleman who was at Google, young guy, and then he quit and he's passionate about public speaking. And so he asked me a bunch of questions and we talked a few times. And then next thing you know, he came out with this AI model where you can upload your video and it does a full analysis of filler words, of buzzwords, of your pace, your tone, where it hits different stuff. And then he raised $7 million and then he got Toastmasters on board.
So if you're Toastmaster, you have access to it, it's out there. But like that's an AI tool for your speech, which I think is an amazing element. But if we're looking at using ChatGPT for like a takeaway, when you say prompt engineering, people still don't think fully understand that. Give me the fast talk on prompt engineering, what it is, and then use it in context to explain the homework assignment for people here today.
Neil Sahota: So prompt engineering, when you ask ChatGPT to do something, you have to prompt it, right? It doesn't do stuff on its own. So you have to kind of lay out the parameters. So give you an example of a bad prompt, right? Or write me a resume for this job.
Ryan Foland: What job?
Neil Sahota: Exactly, right? That's a lot of people think like you get something bland out of it, it's like, it doesn't well. But a good prompt is the more parameters, the more specifics you can put around it, the better. So you'd be like ChatGPT, I'm going to give you a job description. Please, you know, I'm going to give you a job description. I'm going to give you my normal resume.
Please tailor the resume for this job description of a financial analyst at Citibank with 10 years of experience playing up these two key skill sets or whatever they are.
Ryan Foland: You could even say have it in a professional but upbeat tone. And I think what people don't understand is that like a lot of the prompt engineering happens off of the platform in like a Google document or a notes, because as soon as you like, like Discord, as soon as you hit enter, then it's like, ah, you're done with it. So creating an engineering prompt that has full of information and you're talking to it, assuming that it understands and it does. I don't think that if you've used it enough, you realize that you can just say these specific things like up in the prompt and then down to the prompt and then just add stuff, but it takes all and understand. So building that in notes or something and then pasting it in hitting enter and then you get a response.
Neil Sahota: Yeah. And so if you're a speaker trying to do some of this stuff, the honest truth is if your prompt's probably not at least 150 words long, it's probably not a good prompt.
Ryan Foland: So for your homework, everyone listening, Professor Sahota is going to share with you, use a generative AI platform like ChatGPT. Sam will be happy and create a prompt outside of that and then paste it in there. But give it information about you, your bio as a speaker, what your topics are, maybe paste in your LinkedIn bio as a default and then explain what it is you're talking about, maybe some of the examples. If you have them, just paste, paste, paste it in there and then ask it to come up with what, three to five main takeaways that the audience should based on an audience that is high school seniors or executives or something like that. And just get very specific. It takes a little bit of thought and then hit it and in a few seconds, it'll probably give you a number of very cool takeaways that you might not have extrapolated yourself.
Neil Sahota: It will. And for everybody out there, when you kind of create that first good prompt, save it because that's going to be a template for all your future talks, right? You just put in the specific information in some of those fields, but you're off to the races every time now.
Ryan Foland: Well, shoot, I'm not doing that. I'm not saving my prompts.
Neil Sahota: You get some homework, Ryan. My goodness. Fun work. Fun work.
Ryan Foland: Okay, so I like this. At the end of the day, your advice to us is the generic know your audience, but the value in the basics, which we've heard so many times, is that if you're not addressing the audience's business problem, then you're going to be like somebody who's just trying to chat with ChatGPT without any understanding of what you should be creating. And it could present a 52-point PowerPoint slide with all the information you need, but maybe that's not what you need or it's too much or it's going to overwhelm the audience. So your fun work to experiment with AI to see about finding the right takeaways for your audience, which you could also ask for the points to make. You could probably also ask for examples in history that you'd have to cross-reference and double-check.
Neil Sahota: You can also ask it to coach you on the tone of your speech, right? If you're giving a talk to marketers, you want it to be fun and upbeat, but if you're giving a talk, and my apologies to lawyers out there, to lawyers, especially energy partners, they're not in a jokey kind of mood, right? They're going to be more serious, that kind of thing. It can help you with the tone and the way in your script to make sure that you're connecting with them in that way.
Ryan Foland: And you could literally talk out your talk or your speech or recording, transcribe it, drop it in there and ask evaluative questions about it and then get some feedback.
Neil Sahota: Hold on, Ryan.
Ryan Foland: Yes.
Neil Sahota: You want your mind blown?
Ryan Foland: Yes.
Neil Sahota: We're talking about ChatGPT. Got that, Sam? ChatGPT.
Ryan Foland: By the way, can you help me get Sam on the podcast?
Neil Sahota: I'll ask him, man. It might be a little tough. He's not that much of a speaker if you haven't noticed. I know. Well, he's very calm and I've watched a lot of his interviews. And I like his pace and his introspection.
Ryan Foland: So, Sam, I'd love to have you on the show. All right. Well, we'll work on that. But... Blow my mind.
Neil Sahota: GPT5, right? So, GPT is the basis for ChatGPT. And we're at GPT4 right now. That GPT5 will have the ability to look at video and images. So, in the near future here, you can record your practice talk. So, it'll be able to help you not just with the script, but your body language.
Ryan Foland: There you go.
Neil Sahota: Mind blown?
Ryan Foland: Mind blown. You are using your right hand too much.
Neil Sahota: You are pacing around too much.
Ryan Foland: It's all coming together. I mean, it's exciting, but it's also scary. I think it's probably intimidating for people who are so old school that they're just... They've got their shtick and they're just doing their thing.
Neil Sahota: I get that. But it's funny because I can't tell you how many talks I've done where people... You can see the stage is huge. So, as you move around, blah, blah, blah. I'm like, you shouldn't move around when you talk. Like, what are you talking about? I did a TED talk, right? They put a circle on the stage, right? Because when you pace around, you’re actually distracting the audience.
Ryan Foland: Well, Neil, it depends on your intent and your movement, because I've given four TEDx talks and every time I leave the circle and every time they're like, what are you doing?
Neil Sahota: Oh, shame on you, Ryan.
Ryan Foland: Hey, no, but I mean, if I'm getting chased by a bear, I'm not going to be standing on the red carpet.
Neil Sahota: Well, some things just work. Like, Steve Jobs used to pace around, right?
Ryan Foland: Well, I'm talking about intentional blocking, but pacing is a different story. So, yeah, stay on the carpet if you don't know what you're doing. But if you want to be intentional about your blocking, you can use the space that you need.
Neil Sahota: Sometimes you want to take a couple of giant steps forward to the audience and connect with them. Connection, yeah, or scoot back or a time reference.
Ryan Foland: Okay, well, I think we've got some good, fun work and takeaways and points about how to leverage these generative AI models to help augment what you're doing. If you want to go down the rabbit hole, start to have it come up with different ideas for talks and different things. Like, it's just the rabbit hole goes deep. Now, let's transition to how we can use this or how you're using this or how you would say, this is what I do to build my speaking business. Not everyone has spoken on every continent except for Antarctica. Okay, I'm still working on getting all of my continents down. But, I mean, for somebody who looks at the outside, they're like, damn, what are you doing? How does this work? And like, yes, you've got a book, you've got these different things.
But, I mean, if you could just be honest and tell us how you found your success and what works for you or what doesn't. I believe in abundance. We're not going to compete for stages. It can help everybody out. What do you think? I almost want to type in a prompt to Neil GPT. Imagine that you are a successful speaker who has spoken in all countries, except for Antarctica, have a book, and here is the person's profile, persona, characteristics, XYZ, history. Can you tell me what the success is?
What would you say?
Neil Sahota: You want the generic answer? You know, if you give me the generic answer, I'm just going to boil down.
Ryan Foland: So you can start generic and then just expect that we go skinny.
Neil Sahota: Yeah, well, let's do that. Let's throw some mud in my face. Come on, let's go. You know, it's about brand and style, right? That's the generic answer. The challenge I think we all have is we perceive our ways, our own brand and style a certain way, whereas other people might see it a little differently. And so one thing that I've learned, and I've actually used ChatGPT to help me do some of this stuff, right? Start off like ChatGPT, write a bio about myself. But my prompt was a little bit better than that.
Ryan Foland: Now, real quick with this. So because ChatGPT at this point, at least GPT-4 at the time of this recording, it's only trained up to 2021, correct?
Neil Sahota: Not if you have the paid version.
Ryan Foland: Okay.
Neil Sahota: If you have the paid version, it's I think until December of 2022, but they're updating it like every couple of months.
Ryan Foland: Because I've asked it like, you know, what do you know about Ryan Foland? And it gives me an answer, but it seemed a little bit outdated.
But did you feed it stuff and then come up with a bio?
Neil Sahota: Yeah, because I actually will point it to other talks and other things. I have a wealth of data about me out there, for better or worse. But I have a ton of speaking stuff everywhere, right? Scripts, videos.
Ryan Foland: You pulled all that and engineered a prompt to help it come up with maybe how the world perceives you as a brand.
Neil Sahota: Yeah, and that was a bit of an eye-opener for me, right? Because it's looking at that, it's testimonials, other things. And one of the things that actually came up and said is that you have this unique ability to take very complex topics and speak about them simply and in a relatable way without making people feel stupid or sounding condescending.
And it's like, I was doing that? Whoa.
Ryan Foland: So how did that self-awareness, is that showing you that there is a desire for people to learn without feeling bad about it and people are looking for simple answers to complex topics?
Neil Sahota: It is, but again, going back to the teaching thing, right? You're trying to teach the students something that you know is complex and difficult, but you don't realize the way you might be teaching it seems like, hey, I've really dumbed this down. But they're still going like, oh my God, what the hell is that professor talking about? So you're just trying to show us how smart he is, that kind of stuff. It's hard to pick that vibe up, right? And if you're doing a speaking engagement, especially the shorter ones, it’s hard to sometimes read the audiences on some of these things, unless they're literally like walking out, you know?
Ryan Foland: Yeah.
Neil Sahota: And I think that was actually very important because talking about AI, what I've really come to see over the years is a lot of people are afraid, I'm going to come in and give this uber-technical talk and that's not my shtick at all.
Ryan Foland: Right. Especially if they're not even sure and they're like, come talk to us about it. And in their mind, it's complex and it's technical.
Neil Sahota: But based off of that feedback from ChatGPT, I changed some of my marketing and that's actually improved my pipeline as a result.
Ryan Foland: And so you are now utilizing the synthesis of your brand crumbs, which I call as content things that are like little crumbs that people find, because they don't last forever, but people see them and then they finally get buried. But using that sort of real-time feedback, you took a better guess at what the perception is of you and then tweaked your messaging to put out there, hey, this is how I am. Because it's hard for you to get that on your own perspective.
Neil Sahota: Well, 100%, right? It helps to say, okay, these are my actual strengths that people see, play that up at the same time. I can look at some of the weaknesses and say, okay, these are the areas I need to prove upon.
Ryan Foland: So here's another prompt engineering fun work for listeners. Use ChatGPT. And remember, that means using a separate notes or some sort of document so that you put the entire prompt into one prompt and put your bio testimonials, your speeches.
Neil Sahota: Put some links into your talks or something so they can get the transcript and study it.
Ryan Foland: Okay. And then ask it what, how do people see me? What's the core of that prompt?
Neil Sahota: Just say from a psychological perspective or a personality perspective, these are hard sciences, know some of that stuff. How do I come across? How would I be perceived by the audience with my speaking style?
Ryan Foland: And then you could probably take that and follow up and say, now create a LinkedIn bio that represents that. You could probably then say, help me to draft some topic titles and short descriptions based on what you know I do to appease the audience in a way that they see me. What else could you do with that in that thread?
Neil Sahota: One thing that I've done is because I speak to different industries is then based off of that and based off of, we'll call it the personality of the industry, change the verbiage and the marketing copy and stuff so that you're looking for a speaker in law enforcement. Here's a page over here on my website, but now it's tailor-made. Like the neuro-linguistics are now speaking directly to that audience as they want to be engaged. Whereas if you look at the financial services page, it's different. Right.
Ryan Foland: No, interesting. You talked about how lawyers want less frill and they're not as jokey and then marketers, it's got to be fun and exciting for them. So using AI, you're able to get a reflection on yourself and then use that to create everything from social copy to versions of your bio to versions of your talk, probably to different points, different examples, different takeaways so that you're still, okay, now here's the question. Are you cheating? Is this cheating? As a professor, if you are, like, are you cheating?
Neil Sahota: No, and in fact, I encourage my students to use generative AI like mid-journey or ChatGPT or Claude, all these things. It's just a tool, right? It's not like it's creating everything for me. It just doesn't do anything unless it's prompted, right? Whatever this stuff is, it's called generative pre-trained transformer. That's what GPT stands for, but that's what generative AI is. It's just generating a draft of something for you. Whether that draft is 30% of the way there or 80% of the way there is based off your prompt, how good the prompt is. You still got to fill in some of the gaps and do some of the polishing on it. So I just look at it as a tool. It lets me do more work with the same amount of time.
Ryan Foland: I agree. I don't think you're cheating. So we won't talk with the Academic Senate about this. Okay, so you're using AI to help create essentially your different speaker personas, which has the same through line based on what the world sees about you. Do you use it in any ways for prospecting or any ways for your sales process?
Neil Sahota: So I don't use like generative AI. I use other AI types of technologies to help actually do that.
Ryan Foland: Okay, do share.
Neil Sahota: So there are other tools out there around psychographic profiling, neural linguistics that then you can kind of say, okay, based on what I'm trying to do and what's going on in the industry, who to target. And then this is the channel and incentives to offer to actually try and convert them.
Ryan Foland: So not everybody speaks about AI. And one of the challenges that I've had in my professional speaking career is how to take something as unsexy as communication and make it applicable and exciting for everything from a lawyer to the other.
And so for those people who don't have a hot trending topic, communication I think is the most important thing that we all forget about. And I can speak for days about the different slices and dices of it. But for somebody who's talking about leadership or for somebody who's talking about overcoming defeat or somebody who's using sports analogy to talk about finding your purpose.
Some of these topics that have just been, I don't know what the right word is for it, but I feel like people are somewhat desensitized. And so these conferences are looking for the newest and greatest. So I feel if I'm not an AI speaker right now, you're not in that top bill for the conferences that are trying to use this new technology. How does this technology, whether you speak about it or not, help some of these older school topics or people who are like, I'm getting beat out by that guy Neil every time because he's talking about AI and I'm just talking about my leadership.
Neil Sahota: Great question, Ryan. It's all about the value, right? I get the sexiness factor, but I've seen this in some very big conference organizers have realized that big name, that kind of stuff. It's a nice eye draw, but people really want the content. And if you can find better ways to connect with those people, and this is what some of these AI tools can do, they can even help coach you on the words to use, help you hone in and say like, hey, for this organization, yeah, they're talking about metaverse and AI and stuff. But what they value is that their leadership will renew their memberships, right?
Ryan Foland: Right.
Neil Sahota: So if you can talk about how your leadership talk will help them retain and increase membership, they're going to hire you.
Ryan Foland: Right. You know, this comes to a concept, which is also stick figure drawing, obviously, but it's ask people what they want and give them what they need. And I think that is what I'm hearing. And that's what I continue to do is, oh, you know, let's get to know your audience. Was it thereafter? If it's at a Web3 conference, I can still speak to it because your ability to communicate in these arenas or during these situations can be the make or break.
So it's almost like people will say, we want the shiny new object, but you're just able to say, well, I can help you understand how that works, or I can help you understand how to lead within there, understand how to communicate or use these tools or generational workforce, how it involves all kinds of stuff.
Neil Sahota: Yeah. And I gave you an example, the Orange County Business Council asked me to do a little mini presentation on AI at the board meeting a couple of weeks ago.
Talk with them. What do you want to get out of it? Like, maybe just talk a little bit about what people are doing with AI, you know, kind of stuff and kind of hone down, like, how do you get started? You know, the kind of stuff. So very diverse audience. They're all like C-suite type of people, CEO, CFO, did a kind of talk, showed some examples, and people were absolutely flabbergasted. They're going like, I’m behind. That was their reticence. I am so far behind my competition.
Like, I had no idea. I thought people were just trying to figure out how to use chat GPT for the business. I don't know all this stuff already has happened. Right.
Ryan Foland: Right.
Neil Sahota: Now they're kind of having a freak out moment, which was my goal, actually. But is it a good way? Because it prompted them to start not thinking about, okay, how do I play catch up? But people are asking me, like, how do I then leapfrog people? Right. They were that framework you share with the end and how we start using the API, how we think about those Monday. Right.
They're like, can I get copies of your slides? Can I copy that framework? You know, do you come and talk to people? Do you come and talk to people in my office? You're not going to get a jumps? That's the kind of stuff you want to do, but you have to find, again, the right connection point, create the right value to actually do that. So even if you have a mundane topic like leadership, you still have that opportunity. It doesn't have to be the hot, sexy thing. Remember, at the end of the day, everybody pays for value.
Ryan Foland: And the value usually comes in a type of framework or structure or methodology, because at the end of the day, everybody has access to the same information. Not everybody is going to apply that information to actually obtain the knowledge. And sometimes the fear of using the information that you're not comfortable with will stop you from actually gaining the experience. The funny thing about experience is that you only get it after you need it. So everybody has the same information. We all have the ability to sort of expand our knowledge, but we don't because we're scared or we feel that we're behind.
But in gaining the experience, you're able to utilize frameworks. You're able to leapfrog. You're able to not feel left behind. You're able to not feel stupid because everything's moving so fast. Communication's moving fast. Leadership's moving fast. Everything is moving fast. And as a speaker, if you are not adapting and if you're ignoring or you're ostraging, I think that's a word. I know what we're talking about here, but ostraging. Can we use that in that reference or is that like a leap?
Neil Sahota: I think it's perfect. We're not trying to culturally appropriate, you know, ostrages.
Ryan Foland: Definitely.
Neil Sahota: But I can't tell you how many people they think like, if I ignore it, it'll go away eventually. Yeah.
Ryan Foland: Yeah.
Neil Sahota: What has that ever worked?
Ryan Foland: And this really ties into relevance. And, you know, relevance is derived from a word in Latin that I'm making up, which means value, valutulus. And so in order for you to stay relevant, why not look at these tools, even if it's to help you out on the back end that nobody knows, not cheating, but just helping. Or talk about how AI plays a part in communication, how it plays a part in leadership. Find frameworks by Neil's book, his book coming up, and figure out how to not feel left behind. And then you can trend. Because if everybody's only talking about AI, who's going to step up and talk about leadership in AI? Who's going to step up and talk about what it has to do with communication? What it has to do with inspiration? What it has to do with finding your purpose?
All these talks that are fuzzy that we all are used to, but I feel like it's getting outdated because the world has changed.
Neil Sahota: Well, you're leading to something that's really important, something we talked about early on in that no, don't use canned presentations. I know some seekers did that, no thing. But the thing is, you have to refresh your content, right? It's just the pace of change is so fast. You have to do that refresh cycle more often.
Ryan Foland: Yeah. And then even though it takes a lot of work, you can use some of these new tools to help accelerate that, so that updating your website is more a copy paste and prompt engineering than crazy copywriting all the time or brain damage that it usually would take.
Neil Sahota: 100%.
Ryan Foland: Well, Neil, I feel like we've had a great little mini lecture. I feel like I've gotten a mini MBA in AI. MBA AI. MBA AI. Maybe we can come up with an MBA AI.
Neil Sahota: Let's trademark that right now. Sorry, everybody out there. We got it.
Ryan Foland: TM. TM.
So I want to know about the book that's coming up and how people can try to get your slides, how they can try to get you to come talk at their thing, how they can try to get you to talk with them without making them feel bad.
Neil Sahota: Well, my next book is called Disrupting the Box. There is no box. People need boxes, man.
Ryan Foland: Okay.
Neil Sahota: Sorry, they need boxes. The framework boxes.
Ryan Foland: All right, Disrupting the Box.
Neil Sahota: It's called Disrupting the Box. A lot of people talk like, how have you done all these things? How did you figure out the Marvel acquisition for Disney? How did you take Starbucks back to China?
How did you do all this AI stuff? I always tell people, you got to just be able to think differently about it. And they roll their eyes. That's great. That's what everybody says, Neil. So I started thinking about all the- It's the
Ryan Foland: Apple's tune right there. Think different.
Neil Sahota: Yeah, think different. But I started thinking about it. How did I really do all these stuff? And I realized I really followed a series of steps. There were some techniques and stuff I developed that I use. And I realized I can actually share this with people. This is totally repeatable.
Ryan Foland: Another framework.
Neil Sahota: Yeah, and so-
Ryan Foland: Did you ask ChatGPT to come up with it?
Neil Sahota: It did not exist yet.
Ryan Foland: Oh, okay.
Neil Sahota: ChatGPT did not exist yet. I would have.
Ryan Foland: Maybe you shouldn't.
Neil Sahota: I've run this by ChatGPT.
Ryan Foland: Okay, that's good.
Neil Sahota: But it hasn't been trained on disruptive thinking or innovative thinking. So it's just like that.
Ryan Foland: It just comes up with the next most logical word. Okay. That's right.
Neil Sahota: But I piled that out with some companies. They loved it. They were able to teach their own employees to use it. So I run workshops off of it. And I just realized I'm not helping the masses. So my next book is really sharing that framework and that technique.
So it's called TUCBO, T-U-C-B-O, because there are five steps. Think different, which is the ideation. Understand different. So vet it out. Understand what the value you're really trying to create is. Create different. Leverage the tools to build whatever you're doing, your product or service, like AI. Be different. So how you actually drive market adoption and buy-in. And then own different, which is you have to build the infrastructure to be successful. I always talk about Tesla. Tesla is not the first electronic vehicle company, but they're the first successful one. And why is that? They took away the biggest reason for people to say no to buy an electric car. How am I going to charge it? They went out, built the infrastructure, supercharging stations. Nobody else was willing to do that. That's the own different, the infrastructure.
On my website, I actually have a little mini thing on TUCBO. There's a little thing at the top that says Tucbo. You click on that. A little bit more. But if you want to learn more about me, you want to book me as a speaker, or you're looking for some consulting help.
Ryan Foland: Ask ChatGPT.
Neil Sahota: Go to my website, which is just my name, or Ask ChatGPT. But my website is just my name, neilsahota.com.
Ryan Foland: Say it a little slower. You just said it really fast.
Neil Sahota: It's neilsohota.com. Thank you, Ryan.
Ryan Foland: Laura Cicola has a great TED talk, or TEDx talk, called How Leadership Starts with How You Say Your Name. And I've had her on the show, and she's given me some real-time coaching for how to actually say my name. Because I used to say, my name is Ryan Foland. And people are like, oh, nice to meet you, Roland.
So I literally have to slow down and get the uptick. So I'm Ryan with a pause, hit the F, Foland, and it ends in a downward. So you literally just went, neilsahota.
Neil Sahota: I probably need to talk to her and get some help. Because the irony here is the one thing, I hate talking about is myself.
Ryan Foland: Well, it's a good thing that you just got through an entire show talking about yourself. Rip the band-aid off.
Neil Sahota: I was trying to create value for your audience.
Ryan Foland: Yes, yes. But you didn't ask me about them ahead of time.
Neil Sahota: Well, I had done the show once before. I still have those notes.
Ryan Foland: But I did tell you ahead of time that they are speakers looking to improve. Okay, I'm just trying to call you out. And if I remembered your... Ty-bo. TUCBO. TUCBO. Not Tuck-o, not Tucbo, Ty-bo. Not a tummy tuck.
Neil Sahota: Ty-bo is that boxing thing.
Ryan Foland: Yeah, yeah. Tucbo? Tucbo. Tucbo. All right. Well, everybody, Tucbo to you, Tucbo to you, Tucbo to you. Tucbo for everybody. I'm going to go check out the Tucbo. I'm intrigued by it. But thank you for dropping value and really sharing with us that there's information, encouraging us to go get the knowledge so that we get the experience and then we can essentially use other people's framework to come up with our own framework.
Neil Sahota: Awesome. Hopefully this was helpful. If people have questions, my website has a contact form or you can find me on social media. I'm super active on LinkedIn. So I would love to hear from you guys. I'd love to hear how you're using Jerov AI to transform your speaking business.
Ryan Foland: Boom, same goes to me. If you like my energy and you want to talk about how sexy communication is and how it can up everything, I'm here to help you get your ship together.
So final shout out to our amazing sponsor, SpeakerHub.
Neil, I know you're on it. We'll make sure that you stay on it and help people find you. But SpeakerHub is a place for you to be found as a speaker, to find call for speakers, to essentially connect with the speaking community. And this podcast is a huge part of it because we're just trying to share.
We believe in abundance and the more we can learn and the more we can use prompt engineering to help us accelerate, the better we all are until the aliens take over and then the world burns up or just like shortcuts or short circuits.
Isn't that what AI is going to do?
Neil Sahota: I don't think that's going to be. Is it going to transform the world in like one of those metallic worlds, like from Transformers?
Ryan Foland: I think so. Well, that is the metaverse, right? Maybe not. All right. And thus we digress.
Everybody have fun. If you want to find me, you can find me at ryan.online. You don't even have to remember my last name. And until then, we’ll see you on the next episode, which is maybe going to be Sam Altman. Or maybe the next episode.
Neil Sahota: We're crossing our fingers. We're going to work on it.
Ryan Foland: All right. Sounds good. Go download ChatGPT and get the paid version. We'll see you soon, Sam. All right, everybody.
Neil Sahota: Adios.
A bit about World of Speakers
World of Speakers is a bi-weekly podcast that helps people find their own voice and teaches them how to use their voice to develop a speaking business.
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